Drawing on his research on Russia and China, the conversation highlights several key insights:

• Propaganda complements repression: Modern authoritarian regimes rely not only on coercion but on long-term narrative building to secure legitimacy and cooperation from citizens and elites.

• Control is no longer total: Authoritarian propaganda operates in relatively open information environments and aims less at persuasion than at creating an impression of broad support.

• Narratives must be consistent over time: Stable, repeated storytelling shapes public expectations and makes propaganda more effective in the long run.

• Russia and China follow distinct strategies: Russia emphasizes external threats and confrontation (“fortress” narrative), while China promotes cooperation and positive-sum engagement (“bridge” narrative).

• Propaganda is interpreted, not simply absorbed: Audiences selectively engage with messages based on prior beliefs, limiting but not eliminating their impact.

Read the full interview here.