In the format Tischgespräche, from public broadcaster WDR 5, Principal Investigator at SCRIPTS and professor of macrosociology Steffen Mau, speaks with Karla Engelhardt about his bestseller Lütten Klein and his new book Sortiermaschinen: Die Neuerfindung der Grenzen im 21. Jahrhundert. In a time of globalisation, where there is the perception of the dissolution of barriers, one can see a different trend of more rigid and cruel enactment of borders, says Mau. Listen to the interview in German here.